Steve Hales was a member of Synapse Software from company’s early days to it’s last moments. He’s best known as an author of "Fort Apocalypse" (Atari 8-bit, Commodore 64) and his other works are: "Suicide Mission" (Atari 2600), "Slime" (Atari 8-bit), "Mindwheel" – (Atari 8-bit, Commodore 64, PC), "Dimension X" (Atari 8-bit). Also, he did audio technology or sound design for such great games, like: "Out of This World", "Prince of Persia", "SimCity", "California Games", "Maniac Mansion", "Zak McKracken" and the "Alien Mindbenders" and many more.
Karol Wisniewski: Hello Steve. From one of your prevoius interviews, I know how did you learn programming. But why did you get interested in making games?
Steve Hales: Probably because as long as I can remember, I've always loved telling stories. Video games of that era were really a new form of a short story. Today they can be epic.
KW: In 1982 you have bought Atari 800. Did you try to expand your Atari? Add more memory fox example?
SH: Yes. I had custom drives that stored in high density, RAM drives, etc. All kinds of things for development. I wrote serial drivers to play with connecting two Atari's together. Never commercialized.
KW: Do you still have your old Atari?
SH: I still do have I packed away. I booted it up about 2 years ago to copy all the source code for "Fort Apocalypse".
KW: Ah yes, "Fort Apocalypse". I heard you had planned 50 levels for it, but the game was released on 16-KB cartridge and only two levels did fit in. What happened to the rest of them?
SH: I did a total of 4 level designs that I could load into the game. I had another 10 or 15 on paper. I dropped 2 levels because early testing provided feedback that they were too hard.
KW: Are you considering a cell-phone or "flash" remake of one of your 8-bit games?
SH: Yep. There is a new version of “Fort Apocalypse” shipping now on the t-mobile sidekick now. J2me later in the year. This has many more levels, and is much harder than the original.
KW: Will it include the original levels, as well?
SH: The sidekick version won’t, but I do believe the j2me version will.
KW: Did you make the Commodore versions of "Fort Apocalypse" and "Mindwheel", as well? You prefer Commodore or Atari versions?
SH: 95% of the code on the C64 is mine. Joe Vierra did the port in about a week. I like the Atari version because of the colors. I found the C64 always had a washed out screen.
"Mindwhee"l was a completely different kind of game technology. More like a Java VM. We created a machine and ported the VM to different platforms. So the code that ran that was specific for the game was not different between platforms.
KW: Does memories of making "Dimension X" still gives you creeps?
SH: Heh. Not really. I had some fond memories working with friends and collaborators during that time. Some great arguments...
KW: You claimed in 1997 that "Slime" is "my best programming for a console game". Do you still think so?
SH: It still pretty good, but some of my more recent mobile games are better games, better stories.
KW: What is the current status of your early games? Are they freeware?
SH: I actually own the rights to "Fort Apocalypse", "Dimension X" and "Slime". I bought them in the late 80's.
KW: In that case - what do you think about "abandonware" as a game creator?
SH: I'm incredibly supportive of the the emulator scene. Without it, all of these games would disappear. Its the history of our industry. I believe that abandonware should be treasured and persevered. Imagine, if we lost all of the early science fiction stories.
KW: That wouldn't be fun. So, you have nothing against the websites from which people can download your old games for free?
SH: As along as they obey my creative commons license. See the page.
KW: 10 years earlier you stated that you have 12 games done on paper – are you still trying to make their "alive" versions?
SH: Yep. I've gotten back into small games. One of them, Bob, is an old idea.
KW: How long do you think small games will last on the market? Will there always be a need for small games, as well as the big ones?
SH: I believe there will always be a need for small scope games. Its the style of play that isn't going out of fashion.
KW: Does making games on the cell phones gives you a deja vu of the eightieths?
SH: Absolutely, but the development environments are better.
KW: In the end of the eighties and the beginning of nineties you worked on games, such as "SimCity", "Prince of Persia", "Maniac Mansion", "California Games". These games had many ports on many different platforms, including 8-bit computers, like Commodore, ZX Spectrum and Amstrad CPC. Why nobody was interested in doing Atari 8-bit versions?
SH: My personal take is it was because Atari was taken over by someone who created bad business for all involved. So developers moved on. Life is too short.
Besides, nobody was buying software for 8-bit computers. So they died. 16-bit computers was the future. This is the way computers have evolved over time. Today's computers are dual core 64-bit demons. Orders of magnitude faster that those from the 80's. Games were an engine of that evolution.
KW: Why did you stop making games?
SH: I did for a long time because publishers weren't interested in making little games, or unusual games, my specialty. However the mobile games market has allowed me to create new titles and come back somewhat into the "short story" telling I loved.
KW: Which your game was the biggest commercial success (in 8-bit, 16-bit and cell phone category)?
SH: For games that I designed, "Fort Apocalypse" for 8 bit, and "Bob's Journey" for the Sidekick. I was involved as a sound designer, or audio technologist for lots of games that were much more successful than anything I designed.
KW: What are you working on lately?
SH: Now, though, I'm getting into designing newer games that have been inspired by the games we've seen in the last 5 years. "GTA", "Fable", and other such open world games. I have a new one that has got me all exited, but we'll see.
KW: Your hobbies?
SH: Music, playing guitar, bicycling, and of course playing games.
KW: And your favourite games?
SH: Right now, I'm playing a lot of Xbox 360 games. I really love story based games that are built upon an open world environment. "World of Warcraft", "GTA3", "Assassins Creed". So it’s hard to say.
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